EMAILS RECEIVED IN THE SHEDMASTER'S OFFICE Here are emails addressed to the Nine Elms website received in recent months.
For the sake of individual privacy, I do not publish the email addresses of correspondents to the Shedmaster. Email from Adrian Bradshaw (Lostock Hall MPD website): The Lostock Hall MPD website came out of discussions before and after our 2008 40th anniversary reunion. It's good to see that we are not the only ones trying to produce an online record of out sadly missed steam sheds and the men who worked there. Lostock Hall MPD website is : http://www.lostockhallmpd.org.uk We (Nine Elms website) are not alone! - Shedmaster
Email question from Simon Midgley : Was it ever the case that the National Railway Museum could have been located at Nine Elms rather than York? Clive Fairchild replied: My recollection is that it was a toss up between Crystal Palace (the London option) and York (the railway and provincial option). I found the following is contained in Hansard for a debate on 2nd December 1969: When Miss Lee met a deputation from the London Boroughs Association in August, 1968, she offered to consider a firm, costed proposal for a site at Nine Elms, or elsewhere, if one was put forward. Nothing more was heard of Nine Elms until the Clapham Society came to see Miss Lee on October 16, 1969; and shortly afterwards the secretary of the Society sent the Department of Education and Science some rough sketch plans prepared by the Borough of Lambeth for a museum on the Nine Elms site. No indication of cost has been given; but apart from this problem the space shown in the sketch plan would be inadequate for large exhibits. Its area is only 35,000 square feet, whereas the area proposed for the main hall at York is 75,000 square feet. Finally, it would be necessary to lay down a spur line to make the site rail-connected.
Les Hoath has written:
Nigel Whitwell has written:
Simon Midgley also asked: Can you tell me was the Nine Elms site used to build locomotives, wagons and carriages, as well as receiving goods or freight trains? And how large by acreage was it? Contact the Shedmaster Nine Elms if you have any comment. I have referred Simon to the 'History' section of the website where some of the answers can be found - Shedmaster
Email from Geoff Cobb : I've just found your wonderful website - via a link. I didn't travel much on SR lines, mostly on holidays to the South Coast in the 1950s - but thought that the unmodified Bulleid Pacifics were even better looking than the A4s that sometimes took us to Kings Cross on the first part of our holiday journeys from Peterborough.
Email question from Claire Mcilwaine: My father Peter Mash worked as a fireman out of Feltham and I believe Nine Elms. I would be really keen to track down some photos or get in touch with people that knew him, I would like to do a montage of memorabilia for him for Christmas.
Email question from John Dike: My particular interest is in King Arthur class number 736 Excalibur. I have traced her origins, since manufacture in 1918, to Nine Elms, where she stayed for at least 20 years, before moving to Eastleigh. I understand that up until 1956, when she was renumbered 73081, she has clocked a total of 1,455,334 miles of work. I have not been able to trace details of her work shedules and I wonder if you can help me in my search?
The Nine Elms 'Shedmaster' replied:
Email from Nigel Whitwell: In the 1950s I lived in Beckenham (then in Kent but now Greater London) and a neighbour was a certain Mr. Glendenning (I think that was the spelling) who was, I believe, Shedmaster at Nine Elms at that time. I remember him telling me that the first "Merchant Navy" (35018) was being rebuilt, and he showed me a photograph of the result. Does anyone remember him? Occasionally I had to use the "Kenny Belle" in the mid-sixties and was lucky enough to have several footplate trips but I cannot recall the names of crews. I knew Alan Wilton back then but only met him once in later years when I was working at Waterloo HQ, and it must have been not long before he died. Martin Brown was a neighbour when I lived in Lower Sydenham, and he was driving on the Central at the time of his retirement. George Holloway I knew at DMO Croydon, and Dickie Warner; sad to learn of Dickie's passing. Also at DMO Croydon was Jack May, a retired driver from Stewarts Lane, I took him to hear a talk by Dick Hardy on one occasion and they had not seen each other for many years. It would be good to have a similar website for Stewarts Lane MPD since I know there are still fairly regular reunions for ex-staff from there. By the way, one of the photographs in your website gallery of 35015 was taken at Stewarts Lane not Nine Elms. She was the only rebuilt "Packet" to work on the SE in steam days and was quite a regular on the "Night Ferry" as I recall.
Email from Bill Webb: I have just found your website - my name is Bill Webb. I started at Nine Elms the same as Jim Lester in 1957 and left November 1963.
Email from Barry Lewis: I love keeping up with the memories of you folks at 70A, even though I was located a little further West at Stewarts Lane. Just one thing that slightly puzzles me about your website and phraseology, is your continual use of the term locomotive for a steam ENGINE! In my experience at the Lane, the term locomotive was used for Diesel, Electric and Electro/Diesel LOCOMOTIVES. Steamers were always universally referred to as ENGINES. Over to you for comments. Best regards to you all from Barry Lewis - fireman ex 73A
Email from Nigel Webber, son of driver John Webber: My father (John Edward Webber) worked from Nine Elms during the period 1956 to 1967. starting out on the footplate, and then becoming a driver. We have no pictures at all of his time there, only a small handful in other locations. Due to his current illness, his memory is not as it was, so it has taken us quite a long time to extract some names he was familiar with. Arthur Camp, Fred Domm, Alan Domm, Bill Cornish, Dicky Knopp, Charlie Philpott, Alf Hurley, Harry Pope, Fred Hill. We would love to see any pictures of his time at Nine Elms, as we have only heard stories as we have grown up... we have come to accept that finding a picture with him at Nine Elms, is going to be very slim. Ron Petrie says he was a contemporary and friend of Driver John Webber.
Email from Peter Bance We are a model engineering club at Leatherhead, Surrey. Would any of the ex Nine Elms staff be able to give us a talk on a Tuesday evening some time in the New Year please? If anyone is interested in giving a talk to this club, please contact the Shedmaster Nine Elms .
Email from Jim (the spring) O'Halloran of Warship infamy - now in Australia: Regarding your query on the fireman on 35027 (see Dave Wilson's photo quiz page, I do not know but I reckon the driver is Bill Hughes, but I am open to correction. Although it was long before my time on the railway, one account I was told as to the identification of Driver Woofham was that this was a nickname given due to the fact that the said individual had several if not all teeth removed and had difficulty with pronunciation hence the name. I do know that his fireman was Laurie Bird at the time of said incident who went on to became a driver on the South Eastern Division and if my memory is correct Laurie and his family lived in Sidcup Kent. If alive today he would be a very ripe old age. I know that at one time the late Ron(Skilful) Skinner was his regular fireman.
Email from Philip Lawson: I travelled Eastleigh to Waterloo on 27th August 1965 (Bank Holiday weekend) and for along time I am trying to find out what loco was on the train - I believe it was a Merchant Navy but am not sure. The train departed Eastleigh at either 0930 or 1030, was only 8 at the time. Perhaps someone can help?
Email from Roy Hughes: I am researching my family history and noted that my great grandfather John Samuel Hughes was a fireman on LSWR in 1871 census living in Clapham and an engine driver in 1891 but living then in Teddington. Are there any websites that I can access that may give me some insight and confirmation on my great grandfather?
Email from Albert Parrington: Can you give me any info regarding locomotive crews in the period 1900 1920? I have been researching my Grandad's past and believe he at sometime was involved in the railways as a loco crew member. He lived in Bromley before settling in New Zealand. His full name was Walter Leonard Parrington at the time they lived in Havelock Rd. Bromley. My Aunt who is now 96 says she remembers riding in the engine on trips to the seaside, but unfortunately thats all she can tell me,
Email from John 'Jack' Aplin's Grandson Patrick: I’m the Grandson of John ‘Jack’ Aplin who was at Nine Elms up until 1967 then he went to Waterloo. I showed him this site and he was really surprised at the amount of photographs that had been taken and what a good job had been done of it. He is now hunting through photographs as we speak to see if there are any that you do not have that may interest you. Your website is very informative and very interesting to see... it’s a real pleasure to see some of the old photographs as well as the new ones.
Email from Jerry O'Sullivan : First of all, I am sorry to hear of the departing of Jim Sullivan, he was a fine engineman and I have many memories of him. I am only sorry that I missed him at the Reunions as I only found the Nine Elms website last year. I would have loved to chat to him about old times. Another name that was mentioned by Tony Clare on the (Merchant Navy injectors) item was Terry Potter, this sounds like my old chum from Worcester Park, we fired together at Nine Elms in the sixties and the last I saw of him was in 1965 when he told me he had joined the Bluebell Railway as a fireman. I by then had also moved on and the rest is history. Is this, I wonder, the same Terry Potter so mentioned?
Email from Dave Andrews : When I used to sneak into Nine Elms shed as a lad, I recall an enormous spanner leant against the wall adjacent to the turntable. I have often wondered what this was for as it seems too big to be of any use? Any thoughts as to its purpose, or did I imagine it? Jim Lester confirmed to the Shedmaster a few days ago that the 'mystery spanner' did actually exist, but it's precise function remains shrouded in the steam and smoke of history! The Shedmaster heard further comments at the 2010 Reunion to the effect that the likely use of the spanner was to work the central pivot nut on the turntable.
Email from David Wisnia from Leeds: Just like to say thanks for a fabulous web site, which I can't stop reading - it's stopping me from working! My grandmother, and later my parents, lived in Brighton and I used to go down each summer, spending time in Brighton shed, and at Woking and Basingstoke. The Bulleid pacifics were a favourite. I'm completely fascinated by the stories of footplate men.
Email from Jonathon Wagstaff : First I would like to say what an evocative site this is. I can't quite put my finger on it but its superb, maybe because you focus not just on the locos but on the men as well. I am a driver at Victoria (Gatwick Express) and of course our depot is Stewarts Lane and being born in 1963 I am too young to know anything regarding Nine Elms as a depot. But try as I might, I cannot find any maps or track plans of Nine Elms especially the turntable area. Are you able to help me in this matter or point me to any books on the subject, as I would like to produce a small OO gauge model of Nine Elms featuring the turntable and the block of flats behind it. Les Hoath has suggested: Can I suggest in answer to Jonathon Wagstaff e-mail, that he clicks on the History section then - Early Nine Elms maps. The Shedmaster replies: keep watching the Nine Elms website - I will be adding some photos shortly including from the coaling tower in the 1960's which show much of the track layout.
Email from David Bryce : I wonder if the visitors to the 'Nine Elms' site could help me. A friend of mine is trying to trace his family history and is doing quite well, but there is a matter on which he requires help. He is anxious to find any information about his Grandfather, the details are as follows:-
Name. WILLIAM RICHARD GOLDSACK Any information no matter how trivial would be welcomed.
Email from Jerry O'Sullivan : Looking at Bryan Benn's latest article he mentions an O'Sullivan at Nine Elms in 1965, I must confess not guilty on this one. The O'Sullivan he was talking about was, I think, in fact driver Jim Sullivan whom I knew very well but was not related to in any way. I hope that clears things up for Bryan.
Email from Jim Menday : Does anyone have a listing of duty numbers (numbers displayed on white route discs) and their details, for Nine Elms and other depots for the 50’s 60’s period ?
Email from Steve Diamond : Further to the earlier mysteries, there is a mention in the Nine Elms book by driver Jim Evans, of 34034 returning to 70A in August 67, for repair to a hot box. Page 47 shows it in Surbiton goods yard. It apparently returned 6 days later. If true, someone would have photographed it there. This would make it the last steam job at the Elms. Who were the fitters? Where did they come from? The story of the depot will never be complete until this and other post-closure events are documented, to close the book on the history of Nine Elms.
Email from Jim Davis : In 45 years of railway interest, I have never seen a detailed account of what closing a depot actually entails. This site, with the many ex. Nine Elms men sharing their memories, offers a unique chance to put down on record exactly what happened after July 9. After the closing day, there must still be many tasks to carry out, beyond just towing away dead engines. Various books and magazines carry snippets of information. We know the footplatemen either retired or transferred to Waterloo but, what about all the other staff? Apparently, the clerical staff stayed on for a while, before moving to Feltham. When was their last day at the Elms? The stores must gave needed clearing out, who did that? Where did all the spares and other tools go or, were they just left there and abandoned? Some photos taken after July 9, show all the roads outside the New Shed, empty yet, other pics show locos pulled out of the shed for tender emptying. So, which diesel shunted the locos, an 08 or 33 perhaps? Did it stable there, or just arrive as required? The coal removal was carried out by the rail mounted steam crane, that must have scuttled around the depot for a few weeks after closure. These were therefore the last steam movements at Nine Elms. Who drove and fired it? Did the breakdown train leave on July 9 or, 10? When were the various wagons removed? On what date were the last dead engines towed away? How many months between operational closure and, total abandonement of the site, leaving it to the demolition men to finish off? Many questions I know but, the complete record of the final end of Nine Elms is still to be told.
Email from Dave 'Dropgrate' Wilson : I have been commissioned to write an article on the 82000 class tanks which NE men used on the ECS workings to/from Waterloo. This piece is being done in conjunction with the 82045 org. who are building one from scratch at the SVR. If you, or any of your pals, have any photographs of these engines that you could lend for publication with the article they would be most welcome. I am committed to giving some of my fee to the project, but I would be happy to make a small payment for any photos, if that was what was needed/wanted. Any photos used would, naturally, be credited to the photographer/provider.
Email from Jerry O'Sullivan : Looking at Roger Carrell's email I remember the fumigation of the cabin in '62 ( I thought it was for bedbugs at the time ) so I am glad that has been cleared up. The story about standing by a.o.. ( as ordered ) reminds me of the time when in the dual link and my driver Tommy Coles was tram driving I was sat in the cabin a.o. when Len Trigg popped his head round the door and said "ere look pop round on 340-- and get her ready the fireman's dropped it ( gone sick )" - and a wonderful old driver appeared on the footplate, his name was Dicky Knopp and a really nice gentleman. Having got the loco prepared and now standing outside the top yard shunters cabin, Len Trigg said to Dicky " 'ere look, hang on a minute I got fireman Withey coming on in a minute - he can take over look...". As I was only 16 and never been past Clapham, the loco was going to Salisbury on a runner but Dicky had other ideas. He asked me if I would like to carry on and complete the turn, then told Len Trigg "he's ok, he got the loco prepared, he'll do the turn..." This was my first trip down the main line and under the guidance of this wonderful man, it went like a dream. And as for the table gang, that was my first posting. Eight months earlier, I was with driver Bill Austin - he was a wonderful man and I learned a lot from him, especially on shed safety. As for prep and disposal I always enjoyed handing over an engine having made sure that all was well, a good fire, footplate cleaned, windows wiped and coal trimmed and a smile, plus a nod from the senior fireman.
Email from Dave Collins : I'm not, and wasn't (eyesight problem) an engineman but always wanted to be (I am a long time railwayman though) and I remember my first holiday to Ilfracombe behind your locos and crews, and later ones to Weymouth, Wareham etc............and then I spent all of my paper round money riding the last express steam services in England in 1966/7. The steam crews were our heroes, still are!
Email from Peter Clift : Firstly, let me say what an excellent site! I never worked on the railway and it is so refreshing to hear the views of ‘real’ railwaymen who actually relied on the railways to pay their wages. I have grown tired of the various articles in the railway press by written by ‘enthusiasts’ and ‘experts’ whose background was far removed from that of the actual railwaymen. I always find them patronising. However, I do have a sort of affiliation with Nine Elms on two counts. A mate of mine used to live in Brooklands Road and their house used to back onto the turntable, it is actually his bedroom window which appears in the background of many of the shots of the turntable! In the mid sixties we would spend hours around his mum’s house listening to the Beatles, Stones and Bob Dylan. We had no interest in railways then( they were just part of the south London backdrop,) I don’t think we even bothered to look out of the window at the turntable! I do remember we were sitting in his mum’s kitchen one day in 1966 when there was an almighty ‘explosion’, we all jumped off our chairs crying, ‘What on earth was that?’ His mum didn’t move and calmly said, ‘Oh, it’s just the railway over the fence’ and carried on with what she was doing. The kitchen could only have been 20 feet at most from the end of the turntable and the engine cylinder cocks were probably opened. My other tenuous connection with Nine Elms is that some years later I joined the MNLPS and had the honour of meeting Fred Prickett. What an absolute gentleman and what a wealth of knowledge. I remember Fred took any new members under his wing and immediately took you up onto the footplate and showed you what was what. When the engine was in steam at Hereford, Fred would always encourage you to actually have a go at moving the engine, obviously under his supervision. To say I drove 35028 is an exaggeration ( although I do tell people I ‘drove’ it, well it sounds impressive in the pub!) I moved the regulator and the brake with Fred stood beside me. Tame stuff for you chaps but thrilling for me. 35028 is still going strong but dear old Fred, Nine Elms and my mate’s mum’s house are all just a memory. Thankfully, those memories live on through your site. Peter Clift
Email question from Clive Fairchild : Firstly may I thank you for your website's contributions to my Torrington Milk request earlier in the year. They helped to make up 3 articles in my group's magazine. May I now ask something else, this time closer to home than North Devon? In the March 1963 edition of Modern Railways magazine it referred to Schools Class locos being used on snowplough duties after their mass withdrawal at the end of December 1962. You'll remember that the winter of 1962/3 was a terrible one. I have a photo of 30921 in store at 70A in March 1964. There were also two other Schools' stored there at the same time. Could these 3 have been retained into 1963, after withdrawal, for those snowplough duties? I know that 11 Schools tenders were converted into snowploughs but that was in 1964 so is of no relevance to this enquiry. I'm not convinced that using locos with 6' 7" driving wheels on snowplough duties would have been a good idea, but does any of this mean anything to anybody? Barry Lewis has commented: I could not think of a locomotive less suited to snowplough duties than a Schools, great engines though they were. At Stewarts Lane we had a redoubtable Ashord C class 0-6-0 assigned to this duty. I would have thought that a similar simple solid reliable 0-6-0 engine (a 700 class possibly?) would have proved a far better prospect on the South Western?
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